[0:05] Welcome to Do Something Different, a leadership podcast. I'm Rusty Gaillard,

[0:08] and I'm so excited to have with me today Erin Mantz, who is the VP of Marketing at Xeno Group. And we're here to talk about career and how important your first manager is in your career, as well as some generational differences. Because a lot of us who grew up as Gen X and are now in leadership positions in the world are managing people from other generations, and that takes some adjustment. So I'm excited to talk about that. Erin has had a successful career in communications, marketing, and employee engagement across a number of different companies, and she is also the founder of Gen X Girls Grow Up, which is a community, obviously, for Gen X women. So, Erin, welcome, and I'm super excited to have you.

[0:51] Thanks so much. Excited to talk with you today. Well, you have had an interesting career from AOL to Amazon to Meta. You're now at Xeno Group. but you've also had a thread through your career about writing and anyone who's a writer is kind of taking a perspective on the world and one of the interesting areas that you have taken a perspective on is gen x and what does it mean to be a gen x person leading today and i'd love to hear about the community that you've built and how that came to be absolutely yes so like you said i've always been a writer and started out doing a lot of parenting writing when my kids were young like a lot of people, right? You kind of write about what you know, but always had a passion for the 80s and for our generation and had always been in the work world, right? I was always a working mom. And so as the kids got older and as my interests and my career experience broadened, I really found myself writing more about not only generations in the workplace, but a lot of things like in the pop culture that we celebrate and a lot of traits that I think Gen X has that May have fallen by the wayside a bit for other generations. Yes, I may be a little biased, but I found that there was a gap in the community and in the online world and in the in-person world, for that matter.

[2:12] A place for Gen X women to come together and connect and really celebrate Gen X with kind of a light, fun touch, right? There are certainly, obviously, like health sites for Gen X women and things like that. And that's great. And they have their place. I'm not a doctor. I'm a writer. And I have a lot of ideas. And so I put together a Facebook community called Gen X Girls Grow Up. And I've grown it over the past four years or so to about 33,000 women all over the world, very heavily based in the U.S. But it's a great place where we connect with one another and just have fun about pop culture.

[2:49] So, you also mentioned in there that there's some traits that Gen X has that

[2:54] maybe got left behind in other generations. And that piques my interest. I'd love to hear what some of those are from your observations. I'll try to hone in on, like, maybe my top three. One is resourcefulness. I mean, you know, you know this as well as I did. We just had to figure stuff out, whether it was like how to get from point A to point B, or, you know, diving into the World Book Encyclopedia, or going to the library, looking through that card catalog, trying to figure out that Dewey Decimal System. I mean, you name it, we really, we didn't have a lot of shortcuts. So we figured stuff out. A lot of those words are foreign to other generations. They're like, what's that? What's a card catalog? That's how we found information. That was basically our Google for other generations watching this, right? And we were also, some of us, left alone a lot. We were the latchkey generations. I was a latchkey kid. There was, you know, no one driving us to and from school or home necessarily when we got back. And we were resourceful. We had to find stuff to do and entertain ourselves, maybe even make our own snacks and make our own plans. I don't think anyone arranged play dates for me when I was a kid. So resourcefulness comes to mind. Also adaptable. We're very adaptable.

[4:10] Many of us grew up in times, this is tied to the resourcefulness, but in times of perhaps split homes, child custody situations, right? We had to adapt and we had to be ready for change. And we continued to need that quality as things like the internet and AOL came along, which I know we're going to talk more about. And we're adapting again and now to AI and to all the generations in the workplace above and behind us. And I think the other one is resilient. And it is kind of a theme, as I'm mentioning this third one. We bounce back, again, tied to the adaptability and resourcefulness, but we're pretty resilient. It takes a lot to knock us down and we're not afraid of hard work.

[4:53] Man, those are powerful. And I'm sure we're going to circle back to those. But I'm kind of interested in, you know, because we were so resourceful, we had to figure out things on our own and that kind of thing. In our chat that we had before this, you also mentioned how much you learned in your first job when you were at AOL was your first job. And you described it as like setting the bar and setting the standard for what a good work environment is and what a good boss is. And so we are very resourceful and can figure things out on our own. And yet, you had this experience where you learned so much from your first role. And I'm curious, for you, what made that so impactful?

[5:35] Yes. And I think about this a lot. And I also say, I feel very lucky to have had such a great first early career experience. I think not everyone gets that. It takes some time sometimes to get to that point. What really, I think, made such a positive impact on me was a couple of things. The people, I know people, it all comes down to the people, but it was the people and everyone being approachable, whatever the level. I don't care if you were a junior level, a senior VP, and guess what? Everyone sat near each other. It wasn't a completely open office environment, but everyone was very approachable and everyone was in the office, you know, five days a week, many hours a day, I might add. And so everyone was there. And just by the nature of being together and being on the same campus, conversations just came up and you just learn so much. And as I, you know, grew in my career there and kind of earned the folks trust, I had the opportunity to be promoted there and do even more work and really collaborate across the organization. So I think that kind of cross functional team environment also and the ability to learn about PR, even though I was in account services and things like that, work with a legal team on something that had a communications impact. It really was like a broad, almost like going back to school, if you will, but hands-on experience. So I think that also really made an impact.

[7:03] Yeah. Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, I think a lot of people are told you really want to specialize in your career, but especially early in your career when you have those kind of broad experiences where you can see multiple different functions, you can interact with them, you can get a sense of, did I choose the right function because how do you know when it's your first job you don't really right so i think oh go ahead oh well i just think that that sounds like that was a very positive environment for you it was and i'll add the fast pace is also something that i loved and embraced and it was a industry that was exploding right like i can try to explain it to younger generations who might be listening now like ai is now very much on the scene right we weren't really talking about or working with the AI, at least most of us, you know, a couple of years ago, this is like that. The internet was here, you know, online shopping was here. I was promoting like the idea of shopping online in your pajamas, you know, leading up to the Christmas and Hanukkah holidays. And in fact, my whole communications team had to dress up as elves in the background for a satellite media tour. I mean, we did it all. We really did it all. And we embraced every opportunity. And that was another thing. We took advantage of those opportunities and knew how to do that.

[8:17] Well, and that's also tied into the resourcefulness that you talked about earlier. You know, it's one of the traits that we brought into the workplace with us.

[8:25] So I'm curious how that experience, that early experience, shaped you as a leader? Because you went on to grow in your career. You said you were promoted at AOL and you've had leadership roles in a variety of different companies. How did that first experience of people being available, working very cross-functionally and so on, like, how did that shape you as a leader?

[8:47] So i took that and i took on i think intentionally a lot of the same traits right like i wanted to be a good listener i wanted to be supportive i wanted to show i cared i also was really careful and clear as i built teams at different places like aws and like a digital health company i was at called live healthier where i built teams from the ground up i really wanted to give people context for what we were doing and i really wanted to set goals and expectations and again that expectation setting, I think was key in the role definition. I've been at places where roles are very well defined and sometimes where they're not so well defined. And so I took those learnings with me too and always made sure that the folks on my team or the folks I worked with definitely understood their role. Not to say that if they have an interest, they can't raise their hand or help across the team, but what were they responsible for? What could they take ownership for? Because having that feeling of ownership to me. And I think a lot of people that have worked for me is so important and it helps you care and it brings a lot of pride.

[9:52] I mean, some of the things you're talking about could be easily described as really simple building blocks of being a good manager or being a good leader, which is helping people understand what is the context that you're working in? What are your goals? What is your role? What are the expectations of you. And yet, as you think about those characteristics you describe for a Gen X person, someone who's resourceful, adaptable, resilient, who's used to being left alone to go figure things out, you can see that there's a little bit of a conflict, right? Because as you come in as a Gen X person, it's like if you were the kind of kid who came home by yourself and had to figure it out, you had to get your homework done, you had to feed yourself, you had to make arrangements with your friends, you just had to do it all. You can imagine, well, why do I have to do all this hand-holding at work? Why do I have to define the role? Why do I have to define the goal, set the context? Why do I have to do all of that? They should be able to figure it out for themselves. And I'm just curious if you have, from the community you've built, from conversations you've had, if you see that kind of dissonance among Gen X leaders saying, why do I have to do all this? I didn't have anyone do it for me. I just had to figure it out.

[11:01] I do hear that a lot, but I hear it not necessarily with like a negative tone, just almost like a little bit maybe like of exasperation. They understand, though, why they have to do it because times have changed and this generation needs different things. They were raised differently. They have different priorities. This is what they need in the workplace and in their professional development. And we either help them and give it to them or we don't. And not helping them, to me, is just not an option. It kind of is what it is. And so we need to, once again, adapt and give feedback, give more specifics, lend an ear if they want to talk about something personal or their mental health, which I know to some of us Gen Xers, it's like, I would never have raised that with my boss when I was 25. But again, it's very much a different time. And, you know, I counsel Gen Z's a lot in their career development as they go through job searches, figure out where they want to interview, how to network. And they not only need guidance, they kind of welcome it, which is nice.

[12:13] Do you do you think like do you think that it's a responsibility of a leader to do that do you think it's kind of like a moral obligation do you think it's just a simple matter of effectiveness like how do you how would you describe the rationale for why someone as a leader should be investing in these things all of the above i mean one it's the right thing to do which to me is like the guiding, the guiding force, right?

[12:37] But not everyone thinks that, right? Not everyone wants to do that. Why do it? I mean, one, it's, you know, a responsibility to bring the talent along, but also you'll have a stronger team. You know, it may help with ideas, with productivity, with a stronger group, a stronger business, perhaps a stronger bottom line. I mean, everything rolls up to something else, right? But at the end of the day, to me, I just remember people that helped guide me, even though I was pretty independent and that Gen X latchkey kid, I still had a lot of mentors, formal and informal, in the workplace, in every workplace I was at, and a work spouse. So I want to say, don't discount the colleagues that you are with as well, younger and older and same age.

[13:28] Oh, yeah. I mean, I describe that as your inner circle. And if you don't have an inner circle, or if your inner circle is limited to your boss and your spouse, you're doing yourself a great disservice. You need people who can be advising you that you can help you solve your problems and so on. So I think that's that's a great piece of advice.

[13:46] You mentioned that you mentioned earlier that you know a younger generation or you know gen z perhaps um you know some of the gen xers kind of chuckle or like oh my gosh i can't believe they're coming in and they're asking for promotions for more responsibility but they're also talking about their mental health and they're talking about all these things it's like oh my goodness they're kind of like demanding in a way um but i think that there's also strengths in the in that younger generation or the Gen Z kind of approach. And I'm interested from your observations or from what you hear from people you talk to, what are some of those strengths from the younger generation that we as the older generation can learn from? Yeah, I think there are a lot. I mean, one is, you know, I think they ask a lot of questions like, well, why or what's the purpose?

[14:34] It makes us stop and make sure we understand the purpose and the why, right? I think sometimes Gen Xers came from where we were like, you just do it. I don't mean to overstate, like do what you're told. I mean, it wasn't that strict, but it was more of the mentality, right? Now, like they're asking a lot of questions and it makes you, you better make sure you have the answers if you're the manager or,

[14:55] you know, someone that they're looking to in the workplace. And I think they're also very curious, right? So again, it's like going deeper into something, looking things from different angles. And obviously they're like so up to date on trends the news health you know you name it social media is at their fingertips and that's one of the main reasons they're more informed but they are also proactively looking for information um and so i respect that a lot i see that with my kids who are gen z's i see that you know in different workplaces that i've been in and i I hear that a lot on my Gen X Girls Grow Up Facebook community where moms, aunts are saying, you know, wow, like my nephew asked this and my kids told me about this. And a lot of it's health related too. Like they'll raise things to the us. That's like, I'm really impressed that they know that.

[15:52] Yeah. Yeah. Well, and what about the, um, what about the sense? I think that, you know, I, I've, I think that Gen X, if I were to characterize very broadly, Gen X has this, this mindset, perhaps that you just kind of put your head down and you work hard and you get, you know, you, you earn, you earn the rewards that you get. And I think stereotypically there's some people describe Gen Z as feeling like they want the rewards before they've put in the hard work.

[16:22] Yeah i hear that a lot i'm curious to hear your thoughts on that, yeah and again i don't think they're necessarily coming from a bad place i think they're used to more instant gratification than a lot of areas of their life and i think maybe they're not as some are not as strategic in the work world um as maybe we were the path to get ahead also is not, at least from what I've seen at some places throughout my career, it's not as clearly laid out as it used to be. Path to promotion, the path to development. I think a lot of companies are doing a lot better now with training young people and things like that.

[17:03] But I think that a lot of it comes down to that instant gratification. And again, they don't also, they don't know what they don't know. So having someone like a Gen Xer help them look around corners, anticipate how to help with basically their branding in the workplace right or their personal brand and integrity and things that you don't necessarily they may not think about every day doing what you say you're going to do these are all kind of pieces that puzzle that come together and that they need to understand yeah yeah you know one of the things that uh that i think gen z is as stereotypically anyway is good at is wanting to understand the why and understand the meaning they want some kind of connection to like i'm not just gonna don't just tell me what to do and i'm gonna do it i'm like don't tell me to turn the crank i want to know why i'm turning the crank how is this important what does it contribute to and so on um and i think that you know in some ways i end up talking to a lot of gen z people and i think in some ways they have struggled with finding their own why to find this own uh point of clarity about what's important to them and what they want to create in their life and i think uh i think a lot of people that i've met as gen x in my era is kind like in our 50s is starting to think.

[18:19] Huh, is there another chapter to my career? But it's a very challenging question for someone in Gen X. And like you've described writing as a through line in your career and your life as something that you're interested in. But I'm wondering, do you have any thoughts on why it's so hard for someone of our generation to really figure out what it is that they want? And if they're reconsidering another chapter in their career to figure out what is that? Do you know why that's so difficult? Yeah, I do think it's difficult. I'll try to answer why. And I do think it's true. Like a lot of us are revisiting that now. And I think Gen Z is like sparking us, sparking that revisiting, right?

[18:58] I think it's hard for us because, you know, again, I think we were very determined and hardworking as we still are. Um but the world was very different and also we were very different right and now as gen z is like looking for purpose more and more at the company at the employers they're looking at and everything they do at the you know the companies the clothes they wear the companies they follow um it's making us kind of stop and think you know what maybe there is what is my purpose or was my purpose you know from 20 years ago is that still my purpose or maybe i've been so busy right like working and not worrying about my purpose that i'm just going to take a breath now and be like hey for this final chapter so another chapter um what will really matter to me right and that it's okay to like say oh i think i want xyz or i think i don't want xyz i think gen z is very comfortable saying stuff like that and we're hearing that and we're absorbing it so i think they're kind of helping us grow up a little bit too, again. Yeah, I love that. I love that.

[20:07] Erin, what is a piece of advice that you would give to someone in a leadership role today? If you're someone who's leading a team and this team may have different ages and may have younger, people earlier in their career, may have more experienced people.

[20:25] What kind of advice would you give to someone in that leadership role? I would say bring the team together. And this is actually something I've done not in years, but I strongly support it. Bring your team together and make sure that you are hearing from each of them, giving them an opportunity to either present something that they're learning or working about in a group setting. Because it really empowers them. I did these things called employee sharing session, one of my digital health companies. And, you know, it really helped them basically shine a spotlight on a challenge I had with a client or a creative marketing campaign that they put together. It gives them confidence. It gives them presentation skills. It gives them respect. And it makes them feel involved. And, again, it makes them feel like they have ownership in something. And I think that that's really important. And the leaders are listening, but also their colleagues are listening. But you have to create that space to share, maybe on Zoom sometimes now, too, in this day and age, but you could still create that space. And I love that. I mean, the name of this podcast is Do Something Different. And you just gave something that is so practical and tangible that someone can take away and do. It's super easy to implement. And I love that because it makes a difference. And as you said, it hits on multiple impacts.

[21:45] Yes, help them hear from one another. Yeah. Thank you so much for this conversation. If people want to engage with you or learn more about your Gen X girls growing up, what's the best way to do that? Yeah, a couple of things. Erin Mantz on LinkedIn or Gen X Girls Grow Up is the community on Facebook. So just search for that. Awesome. And we'll put links to both of those in the show notes. So you can find them there. Great conversation, Erin. Thank you so much. Thank you.